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home family history journal origins pirates woodturning shop guestbook >>>>>>>>>end of header>>>>>>>>>>>!! r esearch, so far, has led to suffolk and to the hoxne hundred. this district including the villages of horham,stradbroke and wingfield saw our ancestors at the turn of the 18th century. by the mid 1800's they had moved to norwich in norfolk and later to birkenhead on 'the wirral', merseyside. however, our ancestors have much older links to the anglo saxons and to the town of st albans. you'll have heard of 'watling street' named after the saxon name for st albans (waetlingacaester) . it's a roman road which runs from london to holyhead on anglesey ,north wales. a long established route to ireland. interested in 'the w(h)atlings'?........ visit our email group ..........over 50 members and an extensive database related to the w(h)atling name......you'll have a laugh too!!......goto.....watling geneology group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/watlinggenealogy/conversations/messages henry whatling 1825 -1908 henry – who do i think you are? by kenneth whatling (grt x 2 grandson) whatlings in the 19th century clearly liked the name henry. there were 3 of them. henry whatling(3) died at 8 huskisson street in birkenhead wirral cheshire on 10th february 1908. his cause of death was bronchitus and asthma and his son harry (great grandfather) was present at his death. he was a journeyman joiner and he was my great great grandfather. his age was given as 81 years but varied in every census. (note: my grandfather harry denmark also died of bronchitus ) he had moved from wingfield in suffolk to norwich and then again to birkenhead on merseyside. he had come on quite a journey but who was henry(3)? he was born about 1825. i say about because it changes in almost every census.this may have been for'political' reasons. there were advantages of being' a certain age'. ( note in 1841 census ages over 20 were rounded down to nearest 5 years) his parents were henry born between 1797 - 1801 in wingfield suffolk and mary sharman born c 1794 in haughley henry whatling had previously been married to maria knights at hoxne parish church on 5th december 1821. unfortunately,after this marriage no trace can be found of this couple? i assume maria died without issue but cannot find a record of a death 1821 - 1823? in 1841 census mary sharman is confirmed as henry's wife and again in 1851 census(see below). 1841 census: henry watling age 40 born 1797-1801 christened 19 jan 1801 as watling parents henry watling and elizabeth mary watling age 45 (47) nee sharman born 1794 christened at haughley on 16 may 1794 henry watling (3) age 20(?) christened 15 may 1825 as vincent -parents henry vincent and mary at wingfield(igi) thomas watling age 15 christened 15 may 1825 as vincent -parents henry vincent and mary at wingfield(igi) but the rest of the family s were baptised at stradbroke baptist church as vincents although appear in 1841 census as watlings? parents henry vincent and mary nee sharman john watling age 10- b 1831 baptised stradbroke baptist church 26 feb 1831 as vincent maria watling age 9 b 1832 baptised stradbroke baptist church 4 may 1832 as vincent george watling age 7 b 1834 baptised stradbroke baptist church 16 apr1834 as vincent james watling age 4 b 1837 baptised stradbroke baptist church 21jun1836 as vincent ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ henry (1825- 1908) married sarah hales on 24th october 1854 at st peter and st paul parish church at hoxne suffolk (note: in 1801 the population of hoxne was 972 and in 1831 - 1243 . there was a’well-endowed school’ (source comprehensive gazetteer of england and wales..by james bell ) his name on the register when he married is henry whatling and the marriage was by banns and the vicar richard bendryke. both henry and sarah were of full age (over 21) and previously unmarried. henry’s occupation was given as carpenter and their father’s were henry whatling (thatcher) and william hales (bargemaker) . the witness’s were mary barkway (henry’s sister) and edward barkway (his brother in law). henry signed for both himself and sarah as he could write and sarah made her mark. census information: 1851 census: henry whatling(1825 -1908) was shown age 24 (born 1827 ) living with sister mary 25 and brother in law edward in cross st hoxne. this is 3 years before his marriage to sarah. it is also the right birth date for his age on death certificate ie 81 years. spelling- the 'h' had arrived. ( note: cross street is a populous part of the parish, about 1 mile south from the church) hi mother , father and 2 of his siblings were in wingfield: henry age 50 ag lab b stradbroke mary age 56 dressmaker b haughley maria age 18 b wingfield james age 14 b wingfield henry, thomas john and george have all moved out of the family home. only maria and james are still at home. mary had married edward barkway a carpenter, in 1844. they lived in cross street part of hoxne parish. henry was living with them prior to his marriage in 1854 to sarah hales. thomas was a servant park farm hoxne john was a private soldier in the coldstream guards. he was in the guards hospital in westminster. george was a servant at john davy’s farm on pixey green ,stradbroke. he is shown as age 20 but was really 17. there is a possibility he may have emigrated to new zealand in 1858 on ship maori . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1861 census :- henry whatling and sarah moved from wingfield to norwich in 1857. in 1861 census they are in sussex st, st clements parish of st augustines. father henry whatling and mother mary are still in stradbroke 1871 census :- henry whatling and mary in wingfield suffolk. henry is 72 mary died in 1875 in wingfied aged 81 in march 1877 henry whatling dies aged 77 and is buried in wingfield . henry whatling -his son (1825-1908) and sarah are in norwich 1881 census: henry whatling and sarah were still in norwich but in 1882 his son harry albert and the family moved from norwich to birkenhead . by 1901 henry whatling and sarah were in birkenhead too . in 1901 birkenhead:- ernest watkins grandson abt 1880 birkenhead, cheshire, england maria watkins daughter abt 1856 norwich, norfolk, england ernest whatling son abt 1863 norwich, norfolk, england henry whatling head abt 1829 horne, suffolk, england maud whatling granddaughter abt 1893 birkenhead, cheshire, england may whatling granddaughter abt 1894 birkenhead, cheshire, england sarah whatling wife abt 1831 upton, norfolk, england william whatling son abt 1867 norwich, norfolk, england william whatling grandson bt 1895 birkenhead, cheshire, england sarah died 1905 in birkenhead age 76 and henry 3 years later in 1908 age 81 so why was he christened as henry vincent? why were at least 5 w(h)atlings baptised as vincents? the reason is probably very simple . bastardisation in the 1800's was common place and the illigitimate children were required to carry the mother's name. the death of henry whatling - elizabeth vincent's common law husband in 1853 may make this a significant date? henry whatling born about 1825 or maybe 1827 . his parents were henry watling 1801-1877 and mary sharman who married 23 oct 1823 at stradbroke parish church. mary already had a daughter also mary christened 1820 at the same church.this was mary watling who married edward barkway. he was the grandson of henry watling (1797-1853) and elizabeth vincent. his grandparents never married. therefore his father(henry watling (1801-1877) although assuming he was a watling -was (by law) a vincent. he was required to carry his mother's name even though his parents had lived as husband and wife. so when henry watling (1801-1877) applied for banns to be read for his marriage to mary sharman in 1823 the clergy would have asked about his christening and his father's marriage? it would have become apparent he was a 'bastard' in the eyes of the law ( his father never married elizabeth vincent) so he was in fact a 'vincent not a watling'.) he indeed married mary sharman at stradbroke parish church on 23rd oct 1823 as henry vinson(vincent) it also almost certainly led to the removal order placed on henry and mary vinson in 1824 requiring them to return from whence they came ie the next door parish of wingfield . this may have also led to the family moving allegiance to the stradbroke baptist church even though henry had been christened at the parish church. ___________________________________________ poor law more about the poor laws here: http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/poorlaw/plaa.htm removal orders would often take a person or a family back to a place of settlement miles across the country, sometimes to a parish they had only known briefly as a small child. it was rare for a husband and wife to have their children taken from them, each going to separate scattered parishes. children under seven were rarely removed to a different place from their natural parents as they would have had to gain a settlement of their own to be removed somewhere other than their father's place of settlement. the place of settlement for illegitimate babies and children was usually their place of birth, and this sometimes resulted in them removal from their mothers in the 18th century if the child was not born in the mother's place of settlement. an agreement was sometimes made between the overseers of the child's place of settlement and the overseers of the parish where it was living so that it could be maintained by the former whilst living in the latter. children whose mother had remarried a man with a different place of settlement from their father could be removed away from their mother as they would retain their father's settlement, but again agreements could be made between parishes as with illegitimate children above. if you did not receive a settlement certificate, one of two things could happen. you could stay if your original parish ("parish of settlement") agreed to pay a fee, usually quarterly, to sustain you in your new parish. if not, you would receive a removal order, sometimes accompanied by a written pass to the parish of settlement showing the route you must follow. your parish of settlement was obliged to take you back. in 1834 the poor laws were reviewd and 'the poor' were forced into 'workhouses' to receive relief. a personal account of an ag lab in 1840 :- http://www.genealogywise.com/group/agriculture/forum/topics/a-personal-account-of-an-ag ______________________________________________ mary whatling (henry's sister) was also illigitimate. she was the daughter of mary sharman born in 1820 and christened at stradbroke parish church as mary sharman daughter of single woman mary sharman. she married edward barkway on 14th march 1844 at hoxne parish church. mary’s father is shown as henry whatling- a thatcher.so was certainly considered by her to be her father and therefore most likely was legitimised when mother and father married in 1823. both could write and signed their names as did their witnesses: george warren, martha houlett and betsy barkway. vicar john hodgson _____________________________________________________ and what happened to henry whatling's (1825 - 1908) siblings henry watling (3) .. christened at wingfield parish church on 15 may 1825. thomas watling christened at wingfield parish church on 15 may 1825. john watling b 1831 baptised stradbroke baptist church 26 feb 1831 as vincent maria watling b 1832 baptised stradbroke baptist church 4 may 1832 as vincent george watling b 1834 baptised stradbroke baptist church 16 apr1834 as vincent james watling b 1837 baptised stradbroke baptist church 21jun1836 as vincent thomas watling 1825-1870 christened with brother henry as vincent 15 may 1825 at wingfield father henry vincent mother mary (source igi) note: thomas seemed uncertain if he was a vincent or watling? on the 1881 census there is a thomas & lucy in st pancras london. he is a cab driver. living with them is a sister - lucretia, born lawshall about 1852. in the 1861 census lucretia albon and sister lucy are living with their parents in lawshall. maybe that's what thomas & lucy's son (albion) was really called, or the 'i' is missing on the 1861 census. 1881 census dwelling: 27 dalby st census place: st pancras, london, middlesex, england source: fhl film 1341047 pro ref rg11 piece 0213 folio 75 page 39 thomas watling m 56 m wingfield, suffolk, england rel: head occ: cab driver lucy watling m 44 f lawshall rel: wife lucretia watling u 29 f lawshall rel: sister occ: dress maker albion watling u 5 m london, middlesex, england rel: son anne porter u 12 f london, middlesex, england rel: visitor occ: scholar ---------------------------------------------------------- on the 1871 census as walling.(watling) thomas aged 46 born wingfield lucy aged 33 born lawshall melinda aged 8 born kentish town harriett aged 6 born kentish town thomas was using the name vincent when his daughters were born but in 1871 he was watling(shown as walling) melinda vincent 1862 oct-nov-dec st pancras (1837-1901) london, middlesex harriett vincent 1864 oct-nov-dec st pancras (1837-1901) london, middlesex

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